I got a bit of a kick out of this: The Bible Letter.
No, I didn't sign it. Two wrongs don't make a right. Does make you think, though.
via: Pharyngula
tags:Skepticism
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- Call me Paul
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10 comments:
LMAO I 'did' get a laugh out of it because I hate Walmart. Walmart Corp. made their employees work off the clock on their breaks and lunches but "were" sued for it - I only shop there for CD's and dvd's because the clothes fall apart in the wash anyway.
However, in truth, the Christian Greek Scriptures AKA The New Testament overshadows the Hebrew Scriptures AKA The Old Testament.
Paul (The apostle - not you LOL) wrote: Romans 15:4 (New International Version)
4) For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. 'Also leaving a link.'
LOL I'm the most confused agnostic I've ever known:(
Dianna
http://www.harmlessasdoves.com/oldtestament.html
Dianna,
I'm having a tough time swallowing that whole agnosticism claim of yours. Also, your statement is incorrect. The New Testament does not Supercede the Old Testament. Jesus was teaching the Old Testament. He exhorts his followers to adhere to the law as written in the Old Testament. The New Testament is a commentary on the Old Testament, which is what Rabbis do.
-Paul
very interesting; I hadn't seen this before. It all comes down to them looking at an individual passage without really studying who it was written for and what the context was for the time it was written on those particular passages quoted. I could refute what they said with some of those passages, but its not really worth it. People have the right to choose what they will or will not believe and if they are set in their ways, anything I say probably wouldn't get to them any way, only a higher power, i.e. God for those who believe, would be able to change their hearts.
Old Testament - law
New Testament - grace
New Testament doesn't take the place of the Old Testament; it compliments it with the emphasis that keeping the law, i.e. 10 Commandments won't "save" a person because its virtually impossible to keep them, i.e. not sin, but it is the saving power of Jesus, i.e. grace that "saves" a person. (for those who choose to believe).
betty
I think that all of the examples in the letter to Walmart simply highlight the fact that the many different books of the Bible are indeed products of their time, written in a totally different context to our own. The example of slavery being justified by the Bible before the American civil wars highlights how dangerous it is to read these books as authoritative in the modern world. I have heard a lot of people discussing how dangerous the ideas are in the Islamic Koran lately, and I agree that much in the Koran is abhorrent to our modern way of life, but that is because it, too, is a product of its time, and does not serve us as a literal blueprint for life today. Taken to their logical extremes, words in the Bible and in the Koran can lead to violence, hatred and prejudice. I think that we need to read these works carefully in their historical context, judge what is good in them for ourselves and consign the rest to history!!! Thanks for the letter link Paul. It made me think,
Kate.
http://journals.aol.co.uk/bobandkate/AnAnalysisofLife/
Betty, one of the tricky things is that it works both ways. I like what Kate said about considering the books in a historical context, and that the best thing people can do when reading them is judge what is appropriate and helpful for them. Unfortunately--and I think this is the point the Walmart letter is trying to make--there are plenty of people who pick out specific passages from the bible to justify beliefs and actions today. How many people believe that homosexuality is a terrible sin and that homosexuals will burn in hell because the bible says so? We may laugh at some of these passages today and say obviously they have to be taken in some context etc etc (which is good advice) but unfortunately a lot of people don't.
Kind of reminds me of a few years back when Laura Schlessinger was saying that gay people went against nature, and quoted Leviticus to justify her opinion. Someone did something similar to the Wal-mart letter, though I think in a more clever and humorous way, and makes the point that those who believe in God don't (or at least shouldn't) necessarily take everything in the bible literally or as modern law:
http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html
What in God's green world is wrong with people who take Biblical stories as factual?!? Sure, there's alot one can gain during a rough patch in life when something uplifting is needed, enter Psalms maybe, but geez there isn't even a word in the Greek language for homosexual, how did THAT translation get through? So many contradictions, all one needs I believe is to love God and play nice. The book itself is ancillary to one's belief in God, my opin. CATHY
http://journals.aol.com/luddie343/DARETOTHINK/
I take everything in the Bible as literal and true and in it is what God wants us to know. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work".
Also, I cannot judge, only God can judge, but his word does say homosexuality is a sin. Will people who are homosexuals burn in hell? I don't know, that is not for me to decide. I know what it takes to get to heaven and I know there is only one path to heaven. That's what I believe. But in saying that, I prefer to do what Jesus would do - love the sinner; hate the sin. I don't try to look at the "sins" of others without realizing the plank in my eye is far bigger than the splinter in their eye.
The Bible is a great piece of factional literature. I may not understand this or that about it, but I do believe that God had a purpose for it being included and that is good enough for me. Its neat we live in a society/country where we can have that freedom to choose to believe what we want to believe or not believe and to be able to discuss it with others without fear of persecution from the government. Unfortunely, some people living now don't have that freedom that we do.
Paul, I'm going to bow out of this debate right now. I shouldn't have even commented yesterday or the day before but I did.
I don't see a fundamental difference in my two comments, but if you did, okay, I believe you.
good luck with your life and I hope you have happiness in it.
betty
Betty,
This is the very disturbing problem in today's society. People, like yourself, who have been thoroughly inculcated with religion, are capable of holding two entirely contradictory opinions in their heads at the same time, believing them both to be true without recognising the fundamental incompatibility of them.
In your first comment, you asserted that the writings in the Old Testament have to be interpreted in the context of the time they were written. In your second comment, you claim that The Bible is the inerrant Word Of God, and as such, is not subject to modification or change over time.
There is very little ambiguity in The Law, as recorded in The Bible. It is stated very clearly. Homosexuals are to be put to death. People who work on the Sabbath are to be put to death. Children who disrespect their parents are to be put to death. These pronouncements are not unclear or in need of interpretation. They are stated in a very straighforward, no-nonsense way.
You need to examine your beliefs very carefully. Do you believe that people who work on the Sabbath deserve to be put to death? If not, how can you claim to believe The Bible is the inerrant Word Of God?
-Paul
Hey Paul,
I believe at this point, you are wasting your breath.
She is currently going, "Lalalala... I can't hear you!!!"
You are absolutely right in this being one of the biggest problems in organised religion today.
First they say there are no errors or flaws in their beliefs and that the "word of God" as written, is the law.
Then when you point out the parts that are logical impossibilities or socially reprehensible, they write these off as analogies, misinterpretations or a product of the time and environment in which the Bible, Koran, etc., was written.
As soon as you point out the the fact that you cannot swing this gate both ways, they act like you are being unreasonable or vindictive and refuse to continue the conversation.
Hence my utter disregard for religion.
No one wants to recognise that the basis for their beliefs is flawed and in almost all cases exclusionary.
I refuse to even consider any religion until they accept that the guy across the street, who believes in God (but in a different way), will be as welcome in heaven as they are to be.
Once that happens, I'll start discussing acceptable behaviour which should determine who gets to go.
No... I'm not holding my breath.
Brent
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