Friday, May 5, 2006

What is my head noise?

   I have one or two more things to say about this topic, and we'll leave it behind for a while. I want to examine a potential explanation of why I believe what I believe.
   Using Dawn's, and Dianna's comments as a leaping off point, I think it is safe to say that many people who believe in God do so because they have had some kind of spiritual experience in their lives. It may have been dramatic and seemingly revelatory like an answer to a prayer, or it may have simply been a feeling of awe, like one might feel at the sight of a wondrous sunset.
   I, too, have had similar experiences. I just don't attribute them to a higher being. And the question I want to examine is, why not?
   The answer, I think, comes from my feelings about the nature of the concepts of good and evil (Alec and I have had this discussion before, so he'll know where I'm going with this). People who believe in God, also hold the concurrent belief that 'good' and 'evil' have absolute values independant of human society; that events can be classed as good or evil in and of themselves. I do not hold that belief. Good and evil are subjective values that we assign to events or actions based on our social mores.
   About a year and a half ago, the second largest earthquake ever measured by a seismometer occurred on the floor of the Indian Ocean, triggering a Tsunami, or giant wave, that killed as many as two hundred thousand people. Some people have said that was a bad, or evil happening. They have looked for reasons for the huge death toll, assigning blame for some imagined sins to those who lost their lives.
   I don't see the world that way. The Tsunami was an event. The loss of so many lives, while unpleasant, and regretable, was not an evil, or a bad thing. Now, don't make the mistake of accusing me of thinking it was a good thing. Believing that bad or good are the only two choices is what's called a false dichotomy. The event was neutral. It was neither bad or good. It just happened. I don't feel the need to assign some kind of value, or meaning to every event in the world. I'm not looking for meaning in everything. I don't need it to be there. That's why I'm an atheist. I think.

   This quiz has been going around the skeptical blogosphere. I thought it was a rather timely quiz for me to take.

The Pyrrhonian
The results are in, and it appears that you have scored 59%... Quietly confident and aloof, the Pyrrhonian recognises that religions exist and that people subscribe to them, but manages to keep well out of it all. Pyrrhonians came to the realisation long ago that all matters of faith are beyond the scope of reason or argument, and thus retains a clear-headed skeptical approach to religion in general. They refuse to place belief in anything for which there is no proof, and regard the majority of theistic claims as irreconcilable. Leading a life of tranquility undisturbed by religious concerns, the position of the Pyrrhonian is enviable, if a little frustrating for others at times.




My test tracked 1 variable How you compared to other people your age and gender:
free online dating free online dating You scored higher than 99% on pentagrams
Take The Atheist Test written by chi_the_cynic

via Pharyngula, via Science and Politics

   Here is a quote from Isaac Asimov that also describes the way I feel quite succinctly:
“I prefer rationalism to atheism. The question of God and other objects-of-faith are outside reason and play no part in rationalism, thus you don't have to waste your time in either attacking or defending.”
And with that, let's move on to another topic.

tags:, ,

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

....interesting entry Paul. Very interesting.
Gem :-)

Anonymous said...

Hmmm... according to the test, I too am a Pyrrhonian.  But I'm confused because I don't have a mouth full of razor sharp teeth, nor am I (when in a school of hundreds of my ilk) able to strip the carcass of a cow in a matter of minutes.

Weird.

But to comment briefly on the Good versus Evil thing:

I think's it's a grave error to classify ANYTHING as strictly good or evil absolutely.  Remember what George says: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."  I subscribe much more to the relativistic approach.  Something is good or evil ONLY in so far as it is relative to something else.  Everything is relative.  Except in-laws.

I am very nearly six feet tall and tower over my sons.  Next to Larry Bird, not so much.  (What he's doing in my office right now is another matter entirely.)

I think it erroneous to say that people who believe in God hold to concurrent good and evil absolutism.  That may be a more accurate statement of those who are religiously orthodox.  But even then there are varying degrees of orthodoxy that introduce shades of grey to cast doubt on the absolutes.  See?  It's all relative.

One point I do want to make clear is that, from my perspective, God-belief does not, a priori, lead to being religious.  Nor, more ironically, is the converse necessarily true.

Man, I could talk to this topic for hours and have a hard enough time defining my own stance, let alone trying to waste any amount of time convincing somebody else that it was the RIGHT one.

Simon
http://simianfarmer.com

Anonymous said...

Well, this makes no sense. The test didn't allow you to give honest answers. It was multiple choice and you had to answer the questions according to "their" layout. "I'm not an atheist."

The Ardent Atheist
The results are in, and it appears that you have scored 64%...  
You are an atheist, pure and simple. You think God is just one big lie, and consider religious people to be both annoying and beneath you. Ardent atheists will argue tooth and claw for their position, and have no truck with people that won't listen. You think being an atheist is the only way to lead an honest life, and see no reason to accept the pleas of faith. Ardent atheists are the backbone of atheism. Be proud.
My test tracked 1 variable How you compared to other people your age and gender:
You scored 50% on pentagrams.

Dianna << Innocent Agnostic:(

Anonymous said...

"  About a year and a half ago, the second largest earthquake ever measured by a seismometer occurred on the floor of the Indian Ocean, triggering a Tsunami, or giant wave, that killed as many as two hundred thousand people. Some people have said that was a bad, or evil happening. They have looked for reasons for the huge death toll, assigning blame for some imagined sins to those who lost their lives.
  I don't see the world that way. The Tsunami was an event. The loss of so many lives, while unpleasant, and regretable, was not an evil, or a bad thing. Now, don't make the mistake of accusing me of thinking it was a good thing. Believing that bad or good are the only two choices is what's called a false dichotomy. The event was neutral. It was neither bad or good. It just happened. I don't feel the need to assign some kind of value, or meaning to every event in the world. I'm not looking for meaning in everything. I don't need it to be there. That's why I'm an atheist. I think."

Okay.... but, I don't think an 'event' such as a tsunami is good or evil either and I still believe in God, so I don't get it Paul.  I don't assign events a value of good or evil.  Actions can be for good or for evil means.  

be well,
Dawn

Anonymous said...

Was is this?  You don't believe in bananas either?!  But you can actually see, touch, and eat them Paul!...  "Blessed are those who have not seen, but still believe."  That is all I'm saying.  Nope, I'm not an athiest.  Julie

Anonymous said...

And, Paul after that post you can't just go, okey dokey move on...

be well,
Dawn

Anonymous said...

Another Pyrrhonian, coming in at 53%  I only scored higher than 9% on pentagrams.  Um...what does that mean, anyway?

Anonymous said...

"...because time and unforseen occurrance befall them all." -- Ecclesiastes 9:11 (Solomon writing)  The tsunami was a tsunami, not some evil or vengeance being wreaked.  You are right that we cannot assign every event to good or evil.  That is polluted thinking and diverts people from true thinking.  I don't believe in "assigning some kind of value or meaning to every event in the world" either, and "I'm not looking for meaning in everything", nor do I need it to be there, and yet I have always been and shall remain --

Lori, a Christian

Anonymous said...

Well put Lori.  I don't know is that an atheistic assumption that we Christians would do such a thing?  lol

be well,
Dawn

Anonymous said...

OK, after making a comment two entries ago regarding the difference between the average believer in God and the highly visible, fundamentalist minority, I have again gone and tarred with too wide a brush, here. After an interesting discussion with my wife over dinner, it occurs to me that many people believe in their own ways, that oftentimes diverge quite radically from the teachings of any particular Christian sect; and that many others believe in a God without any concrete idea of what that belief entails.

I always seem to stray into territory I don't want to traverse. I have no desire to be accusatory in any way. If you believe in a God, you believe differently than I do. I do not vilify you for those beliefs. I think they are erroneous, but understand that there is absolutely nothing I can say to change the mind of someone who believes in God. I think that's the end of the story.
-Paul

Anonymous said...

Yup, the end... lol  I guess we all do that (paint with a wide brush) sometimes Paul.  You are only the second atheist I have ever been friends with (you online, one in person) so it would be hard for me to the same about atheists.. I don't have a large sample to draw from.  However, I know nothing I say will change your mind either.  ;-D

be well,
Dawn

Anonymous said...

Lori's scriptural quote is accurate. " ... time and *UNFORSEEN* occurrence befall them all." -- Ecclesiastes 9:11  Yet, I couldn't help but wonder about the origin of the term "act of god." So, I looked it up:)
Act of God
Meaning:
Acts which are outside of human control.
"Origin"
Originated in legal or insurance circles to denote acts which aren't the responsibility of any individual and therefore uninsurable.

Aha! I just learned something new. Didn't know that it was simply legal jargon to protect the client.

Dianna << Agnostic meaning: "I don't know if there is a god or not."

Anonymous said...

Sorry - link didn't come out right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_God

http://www.answers.com/topic/act-of-god

Anonymous said...

Interesting reading.
Next topic.......

Anonymous said...

The results are in, and it appears that you have scored 42%... Quietly confident and aloof, the Pyrrhonian recognises that religions exist and that people subscribe to them, but manages to keep well out of it all.

I guess I have 17% more faith than Paul. :-D

I agree, it wasnt a very good test. There were some answers that I just had to choose the most accurate choice, even if it was still completely inaccurate (we'll call it the 'barely hits the broad side of a barn' model.